Maximum Fit Magazine

George is right  Ah, the three sweetest words in the English language.

I've only fired a gun twice (and the second time was an accident) but from what I understand, the speed and power come with the weapon, so all that needs developing is aim and timing. The only difference between walking down a sidewalk and walking a cable suspended over Niagara falls is a pole. The devil is in the details. Developing speed and power with one's own body, on the other hand, takes long hours of focused training... So does shooting a firearm. Are you intentionally misunderstanding? No. Are you? We certainly aren't having a productive discussion are we? Tim Ok, I'll try reframing it. A gun is a machine, and as such comes with certain advantages. The explosive force generates power, and the barrel focuses it, generating speed. (I may not be phrasing this well, since I don't know much about gun innards.) So the power and speed are inherent. To elaborate on the inherent advantages given by machines: I could paint an image of something, or I could use a camera to take a photograph. The photo would be much quicker and, yes, easier, though obviously there are skills I would need to develop to take an excellent photo. Developing the painting skills would be more work, though. I could squash someone with a steamroller. First I would have to learn to drive the steamroller, of course. But even with that, it would be easier to squash someone truly flat with a steamroller than it would to do so with my hands and feel. I'm sure that it takes a lot of practice to be able to hit a moving target with a rifle. I would argue that even given that factor, it would be easier to do a given amount of damage to a moving target than it would to do a similar amount with hands and feet. And if you include automatic weapons, I would guess that it would not take that much practice to be able to hit a moving target by sweeping the general area with a spray of bullets. I've never fired an automatic weapon, though. Maybe they're really tricky. I'm assuming that everything you know about shooting you learned vicariously from movies, television and video games. It's harder than you think. I'm not arguing with the points you make above. I'm disputing NJill's claim that being proficient with a firearm is easier than being proficient in karate. We are at an impasse because we don't agree on the definitions of easy or the _object_ives of becoming proficient in shooting and karate. In addition we have gotten sidetracked about what things can be considered martial arts.

Maybe it is a foolish argument and a waste of time. Comparing  apples and oranges is usually. I don't think it is apples and oranges, other than it's a fairly subjective question.  So let me put it in a slightly more specific way: from my personal experience as well as my observation of others, it is harder to do karate well than to shoot well.  See above for my definition of doing well. My problem is that the above simply refers to something you say you did elsewhere. I can't find it. Maybe I deleted that message. Please cut and paste it to a new message so we can at least be discussing the same thing.

I think you might change your opinion if you saw a Tae Kwan Do trained ROK soldier use it in hand to hand combat where the rules of engagement authorized him to kill the other person. As a soldier, I figured that God wanted me to have a gun for a reason.  Black belts, unlike Ranger tabs, don't make you bulletproof.

 Mostly, that you're wrong: hitting what you're shooting at, or running someone over, at least well enough to win a fight, do not take nearly as much physical discipline and control as any other martial art. I'm not even sure shooting a handgun is a martial art, especially not as practice for winning a fight. Indeed, in battle 'aimed' rifle fire is almost unknown and exposing yourself enough to do so is likely suicidal.  Winning is predicated on dumping a large amount of unaimed fire into an area with enemy in it and relying on the law of averages, while you make yourself as small a target as possible.  Standard machine gun equipment includes T&E gear and range cards, so they can fire at likely enemy positions with no visibility whatsoever.

The hardest thing I've ever done was ballet. Physically and mentally. The hardest thing I have ever done is breath hold diving but I wouldn't agree with an unqualified statement that it is easier to be good at karate than breath hold diving. Wow Wiki says the current record is 702 feet on a breath of air. I'd like to see one of those 11 year old black belts from the strip mall do anything comparable to that.